A few thots

Work which evolves aspects of George Russell's theories such as Tonal Gravity.

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A few thots

Postby bobappleton » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:15 am

Here are a few questions I'm working on answers to. Any thots?

1. if we can expand the choices of scales and chords with the lcc in music, then we should be able expand the forms of visual organization - which relate to space - in art as well. how?

2. if we can make a vocabulary which crosses over between the rules of sound, visual space (art, design) and language (words) then we have a "unified field". where do we start?

3. can we perform sound, art and language in the moment - as improvisation?

;)
Last edited by bobappleton on Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby chespernevins » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:14 pm

Hey Bob - don't know that I'm original to the forum enough to answer, but what the heck ;)

On my way in to work today, I got the most vivid visual image of boomerang shaped "threads" that represented diminished triads.

I imagined them floating in air, but their arrangement was how they would look when spread throughout the tonal gravity chart and sorted by ingoing to outgoing....

There's more to it, but it's hard to explain :roll:

I gotta check on what kinda coffee I was drinking.... :shock:
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Postby bobappleton » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:13 pm

<<don't know that I'm original to the forum enough>>

arrrghh!


<<I got the most vivid visual image of boomerang shaped "threads" >>

that's really interesting


<<diminished triads... floating in air>>

yes


<<their arrangement was how they would look when spread throughout the tonal gravity chart and sorted by ingoing to outgoing>>

ok. so if we made a max/msp patch (using midi) which connects the position of these triads in the tonal gravity chart, we could perform the lcc and trigger visual events at each triad?


<<gotta check on what kinda coffee I was drinking>

the coffee around here is called max/msp jitter


any more ?


:oops: :roll: :shock: :lol: :?:
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Postby chespernevins » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:08 pm

What do you think about the geometry of the chart on the title page of the Fourth Edition?

A circle of 5ths, a triangle of Major 3rds and tritones bisecting the circle and each triangle.
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Postby bobappleton » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:02 pm

<<the geometry of the chart on the title page of the Fourth Edition>>

i've looked at it a lot and wondered. what do you think it means in sound?

you're definitely right about tonal gravity.

what i came to is a question: what's the visual (tonal) gravity of space?

a relationship between unity and proportion which is not about single point perspective (because that's too literal and limiting), but may incorporate the pure mathematics of the golden mean.

"all the changes" = "all the space"
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Postby sandywilliams » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:57 pm

Welcome home, Bob. I trust you had a fascinating journey. I bet you had some strong coffee in Istanbul! Your query made do some free-associating that I thought I’d bounce off you guys. GR was obviously hearing music in a way that he felt he could describe best in dimensional terms, vertical, horizontal…super-vertical. Where do you think these intersect with height, width, depth, and time? “The three dimensions are commonly called length, width, and depth (or height){Wiki}â€
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Postby bobappleton » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:30 am

hey sandy! that's nice. it relates the parts in a typically abstract musical way. i'll happily accept any further thoughts on the subject, and share the results...

istanbul was chaos at it's best. the coffee was strong, the weather hot(ter), the art cool and the music wild. we had dinner one nite at a place we totally stumbled into "up the winding stairs to the eighth floor" where it suddenly opened into a club with large windows - and you could look over all of istanbul. the music was folk - no clarinet, but guitars and other stringed instruments everywhere and passionate, spontaneous singing and dancing as only they can...

there are a couple of movies we did in yahya dai the soprano player's studio after the performance: http://www.youtube.com/bebopple

i'm waiting for actual performance video to arrive. now I have another gig in barcelona in march.

thanks for these thots!
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Postby sandywilliams » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:38 am

The videos are beautiful. What a nice tone the soprano player has!
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Postby bobappleton » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:11 pm

<<it's very interesting to contemplate what insight might be gained in making visual representations of tonal concepts>>

thanks strachs. i totally agree.
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Postby sandywilliams » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:16 pm

Have you ever seen this book before?
http://www.amazon.com/Harmonograph-Visu ... 907&sr=8-1
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Postby bobappleton » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:20 pm

sandywilliams wrote:The videos are beautiful. What a nice tone the soprano player has!


we met ten minutes before the performance. we just started playing and it was great.
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Postby bobappleton » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:42 pm

sandywilliams wrote:Have you ever seen this book before?
http://www.amazon.com/Harmonograph-Visu ... 907&sr=8-1


interesting! i just ordered a pdf of it online.
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Postby sandywilliams » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:03 pm

[quote="bobappleton"][quote="sandywilliams"]The videos are beautiful. What a nice tone the soprano player has![/quote]

we met ten minutes before the performance. we just started playing and it was great.[/quote]
Now you have me curious. Did you improvise to the video or was that something you created later? I love it.
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Postby chespernevins » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:53 pm

Hey Bob,

I too really dig your Instanbul You Tubes!

On another note, I went to hear Howard Levy the virtuoso harmonica player (he plays a full chromatic scale on the blues harp - any kind of music). Afterwards, someone there from the audience was showing us a book that showed sound wave images in water and sand - and then compared them to the shells of turtles which had the same patterns in them. Wild! If I can find out what that was, I'll let you know.
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Postby dds1234 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:15 pm

I know exactly what you are talking about Chesper... I just can't find the documentary I watched about it. That art form is referred to as cymatics.

In rice or sand- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkox6niJ1Wc
In water- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaowfGVzQ7U


Try that search term, you'll find some really cool stuff.
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