Questions about chords

Questions and answers on the basic structure of the LCC

Moderators: bobappleton, sandywilliams

Postby chespernevins » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:37 pm

Strachs, can you spell it out? How would that work?

The reason I ask - G# can't be in G's ladder of fifths.

Did you mean a ladder on D? In that case, there is no C# between the F# and G#, so no ladder is created, according to this model.

However, you could introduce a G# to the C ladder and would get the same results as with Ab.
chespernevins
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:34 am

Postby strachs » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:28 pm

I did mean D, woops. I've edited my response with the D instead.

Forgive me, but if the absence of C# means no ladder, doesn't that apply to the Ab as well, since there is no Eb, Bb, or F to "connect" the Ab (competing LT) to the C, G, and D that it is said to claim?
strachs
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:48 pm

Postby chespernevins » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:46 pm

Forgive me, but if the absence of C# means no ladder, doesn't that apply to the Ab as well, since there is no Eb, Bb, or F to "connect" the Ab (competing LT) to the C, G, and D that it is said to claim?


Correct. There are only two full "competing ladders", those built on G and F, accounting for the tones C# and F being the farthest out.

The impact of Ab is measured only by its being a tonic of the intervals Ab - C, Ab - G and Ab - D. (True, either tone can be a tonic of the tritone.) There is no full ladder of fifths created on Ab.

I am suggesting that Ab, Eb and Bb each (alone) disrupt the C ladder to a certain degree because of the fact that they each form interval tonics with a certain number of notes in the C ladder.

I am also suggesting that F and C# create full (secondary) ladders when added to the C ladder. Given this idea that a ladder of fifths is a special entity in itself - a "Tonal Gravity Field" - it makes sense that any secondary Tonal Gravity Field that is set up in the key of C is going to create a lot of dissonance with the C ladder, and the C Lydian Tonic.

True, a flat lying Db is not the tonic of many notes in C (only C and G). So why is it so dissonant? I am offering the idea that Db/C# completes a ladder of fifths on G, which creates a full, competing, ladder of fifths.
Last edited by chespernevins on Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chespernevins
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:34 am

Postby chespernevins » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:48 am

I was thinking:

When we play F in the context of C Lyd, it sounds like a dissonant note. It's not enough to usurp C Lydian, it just sounds like we are playing a "sour" note, so to speak. But C is still the TONIC. We say that F is in the C Lydian 11 tone order.


F#
B
E
A
D
G
C <- LT
F <- C 11 TO



We have THE EXACT SAME intervallic relationships in a Ladder built on G in the key of C. By analogy, does the Ladder on G make C sound like an 11 tone order note in the key of G? We are making the C, the lydian tonic, sound as wrong as that F sounded in C Lyd.

Adding a C# to the key of C Lydian is as disruptive as we can get.

C#
F#
B
E
A
D
G <- Ladder on G
C <- LT
chespernevins
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:34 am

Previous

Return to Lydiability (LCC Fundamentals)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron