CMGs

Questions and answers on the basic structure of the LCC

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CMGs

Postby chespernevins » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:22 am

Hey all,

I wrote up this mail to Bb to try and explain CMGs.

I wrote it quickly and imperfectly and I want to post it this way. I would love for someone to come along and rip this to shreds, and show me where I went wrong, clarify or otherwise school me/us if necessary.

Hey Bob,

I was thinking, I do have something a little more concrete for you along these lines (the functional harmony thing). I remember mentioning that the LCC says the Lydian scale resolves to its Conceptual Modal Genres. I don't think this is in book I except for hints. But I have a chart from George.

Basically, take the lydian scale and put it over any of its modal tonics. These are all vertical structures.

So

F LYD over F, G, A, B, C, D, or E are all vertical

BUT in addition, you can build triads on scale degrees V (maj), III (min), II (maj), VII (min).

These are the CMGs (Conceptual Modal Genres).

These are called Vh, IIIh, IIh and VIIh on chart A.

So in F lyd, Vh is really an F lyd scale over a C triad which makes C major. IIIh is F lydian over an A- triad which makes aeolian. IIh = F lyd over G triad = G mix. VIIh = F lyd over E- triad = E phryg.

But doing this turns the lydian scale on its ear - it for example, forces the F lydian scale to sound over a different tonic chord (C Maj), which is what turns it into a horizontal sound because now you have two tonics F and C.

So the F lyd scale RESOLVES to its CMGs.

D- G7 C = F LYDVI FLYDII FLYDVh.

Make sense?

I could see another cliff notes coming out of this.

I typed this very quickly as I got into work, I hope there are no errors that prove to be confusing.

One interesting thing. As I recall, in tonal orders 11 and 12 George adds Ih and VIh as CMGs. This makes sense, as 11 t.o. would give us Bb in the key of Flyd, giving us F maj, which does resolve to an F triad horizontally.

Any comments welcome!
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Postby chespernevins » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:13 pm

Just to dig myself deeper into this hole, and speaking of CMGs and of B7b9 in another recent thread:

B7b9 can come from the following Lydian Chromatic Scales:

C, D, Eb, F, and A.

On chart A, for B7b9, VII is the PMG and +V, +IV and II are listed as AMTs. I add VI as another AMG. (D lyd b7 as a parent scale for B7b9).

I am assuming that the Lydian scale resolves to its Conceptual Modal Genres.

So if I take the 4 Conceptual Modal Genres for each Lydian Chromatic Scale I have listed as a possible parent scale, I should have a list of chords which B7b9 can conceivably resolve to.

So CMGs for:

C = D7 E- G B-
D = E7 Gb- A C#-
Eb = F7 G- Bb D-
F = G7 A- C E-
A = B7 C#- E Ab-

RE: the dom 7 chords above, George says CMGs should be triads in Book I, but I sometimes sneak the 7th on there as a color.

I have two double listings above, E- and C#-, so that gives me a total of 18 CMGs to which I can resolve B7b9:

So we get:

B7b9 resolving to:

B-
B7 (B)
C
C#-
D-
D7 (D)
E
E-
E7 (E)
F7 (F)
Gb-
G
G-
G7 (G)
Ab-
A
A-
Bb

This doesn’t mean that there aren’t other chords a B7b9 chord can go to, but at least this gives us some of the CMGs.

I throw this out there to share or to generate discussion….
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Postby sandywilliams » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:09 pm

"
RE: the dom 7 chords above, George says CMGs should be triads in Book I, but I sometimes sneak the 7th on there as a color. "

George doesn't like the term 'dominant seventh'. He would say" dominant to what?".
Concerning CMGs: they work because of their sharp relationship to the LT. When you add the 7th to those chords they no longer have this relationship.This is why GR says CMGs should be triads.
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Postby Bob » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:08 pm

chespernevins wrote:
I am assuming that the Lydian scale resolves to its Conceptual Modal Genres.



I followed your reasoning through this. But could you clarify the quote and/or point to a reference in Vol 1. I admit I haven't given the CMG section as close a read as I should.
10 {The artist formerly known as Bb}
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Postby chespernevins » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:56 pm

Sandy,

Thanks for your good comments.

George doesn't like the term 'dominant seventh'. He would say" dominant to what?".


Oops, yeah, I was getting a little fast and loose with the terminology there. Maj b7.

Concerning CMGs: they work because of their sharp relationship to the LT. When you add the 7th to those chords they no longer have this relationship.This is why GR says CMGs should be triads.


Yes, I should stick to the triads as George has defined for now. I have many questions about CMGs, (which could lead to endless futile speculation), but my first priority is to stick with the letter of the law and to see what possibilities/results are available within these rules.

So let me amend my list:

CMGs for:

C = D E- G B-
D = E Gb- A C#-
Eb = F G- Bb D-
F = G A- C E-
A = B C#- E Ab-

So the CMGs that B7b9 resolves to:

B
B-
C
C#-
D
D-
E
E-
F
Gb-
G
G-
Ab-
A
A-
Bb

Better?
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Postby chespernevins » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:32 pm

ON THE OTHER HAND,

Check this out:

p.118, under the FIIh:G Major diagram, where George lists G maj, G majb7, G majb7 (9,11,13).

Also,

p.123, first paragraph, regarding the F maj b7 being an EbIIh. It goes on to say "The musician is therefore free to relate to any 7th chord in the manner of a IIhmajb7 chordmode, placing the plain II seventh chord in the conceptual mode IIh context of its Parent [LC] Scale" etc....

That would seem to say that I could resolve to CMGII maj b7. What do you think? Am I reading this correctly?
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Postby chespernevins » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:40 pm

Bb said:

I followed your reasoning through this. But could you clarify the quote and/or point to a reference in Vol 1. I admit I haven't given the CMG section as close a read as I should.


Bob, good question. It's not easy to find in the book. But there are a couple of references to this idea, the most succinct one being on p.126, under "Summation of Conceptual Modal Genres" where it says:

"the four CMG function as tonic stations to which chordmodes from any of the eight PMG of their conceptual parent [LC] Scale may resolve."
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