B7b9

Questions and answers on the basic structure of the LCC

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B7b9

Postby Jamie » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:22 am

hello,
i'm just starting to get to grips with the concept and have started to try the tests in the book but one chordmode really confuses me.

in test A (the chordmode one) I am convinced that the Parent lydian tonic for a B7b9 would be from the b2 of the chord mode. in my thinking this shud be C, yest the answer given is A. this is also the case with a Bb7b9 in All the things you are (answer given as Ab).

am i just being really stupid?

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Postby dogbite » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:30 am

no you're not being stupid at all. C is simply an alternate parent LC scale for B7b9. see chapter VI (page 103) for a detailed discussion of this...

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Postby Nate Comp » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:49 pm

Hey Jamie,

The Parent scale of 7th chords is normally found on Chordmode II of the Lydian scale. One thing that often confuses people is when they begin to confuse the alterations/extensions of the chord with the Root of the chord and its position in the Lydian scale.

Think of it this way: if the chord was just B7, it would be Chordmode II of A Lydian. Just because the chord is B7b9 doesn't change the fact that it is STILL Chordmode II of A Lydian.

As you work your way through the Concept, you will find that there are OTHER possible choices for this chord (which dogbite mentioned), but you must have a firm on finding the "Prime Color" of a chord first and then you can start to deal with other possibilities.

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Postby Bob » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:54 pm

7b9 shows up first as lydian VII. Maybe the test answer is a typo.
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Postby Bob » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:45 am

motherlode wrote:Bob is absolutely correct.


Which, if it holds up, is a rarity these days. :)
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Postby sandywilliams » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:53 pm

Another scale to try on a Bb7b9 is Eb harmonic minor, which is represented in the LCC world as Cb lydian #2. This scale isn't mentioned in the older edition.
As I recall this scale is classified as a horizontal scale.
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Postby Bob » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:01 pm

Where is it mentioned in the latest edition?
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Postby sandywilliams » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:23 am

[quote="Bob"]Where is it mentioned in the latest edition?[/quote]
Page 80 as "Major Sharp 5th Scale". In your Autumn Leaves example that would be F Maj. #5. The text on page 81 is relevant as well. There is no doubt of in my mind of the influence of Bb Lyd on this situation. I think the designation, as F maj Sharp Fifth is a reflection of this scale's horizontal nature.
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Postby chespernevins » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:48 pm

Hey Sandy,

That’s pretty interesting how you use the Maj #5 scale. I have always thought of the #5 scale as more of a Major Bebop scale.

Here are some horizontal scales I like over B7b9.

B blues
C Maj, C Maj b7, C Maj Bebop, C blues, A blues
D Maj b7, D blues, B blues
Eb Maj, Eb Maj b7, Eb Maj Bebop, Eb blues, C blues
F Maj, F Maj b7, F Maj Bebop, F blues, D blues
F# blues
G Maj, G Maj b7, G Maj Bebop, G blues, E blues
Ab Maj, Ab Maj b7, Ab Maj Bebop, Ab blues, F blues
A blues
Bb Maj, Bb Maj b7, Bb Maj Bebop, Bb blues, G blues

When all of the Major and Blues scales in one key seem to work, I call it a horizontal “bundleâ€
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Postby chespernevins » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:49 pm

I guess relating these horizontal scales to just one chord would qualify these scale choices as "verticalized horizontal melodies". Do you agree?

Apologies to Jamie for highjacking the thread... Good observation on your part regarding test A!
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Postby chespernevins » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:21 am

Sandy:
Another scale to try on a Bb7b9 is Eb harmonic minor, which is represented in the LCC world as Cb lydian #2. This scale isn't mentioned in the older edition.


Bob:
Where is it mentioned in the latest edition?


Also see p.147-148, "official scales" where Lydian b3 is listed as a Nine-Tone Order Official Scale.
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