Hindemith Uncovered

[motherlode]

Step #1:

This is a 'clean' copy of "Sonata fur Flote und Klavier", Paul Hindemith (1936).
My LCC analysis will cover the first eleven bars.

http://www.4shared.com/photo/gGU-lpCR/hindemith.html
http://www.4shared.com/audio/UnygN2BI/S ... ier_2.html

I felt that due to the amount of material that will be covered this analysis merits a new thread.
Background: "George Russell vs Paul Hindemith", DroneDaily, Jan 17, 2011.

[motherlode]

Step #2:

For those of you that can open a .sib file.
"Sonata...", Sibelius scan/sound file:

http://www.4shared.com/file/aiyw7ErN/So ... ier_2.html

I've raised this point in the past...to have an edge with the LCC a professional notation program is highly recommended.

[motherlode]

Step #3:

While working over Hindemith's "Sonata..." (with regard to chord analysis), the most glaring feature was the sheer number of hollow harmonic structures, ie, 5ths, 7ths, etc.,...then it hit me...

Hindemith is the gentleman who put forth the idea of 'interval tonics'. What I was witnessing was a running model. What is known as a 'diad' by conservatives appears to be regarded as a complete harmonic structure according to his harmonic thinking. In other words, he seems to feel that his two note structures are strong enough to support what ever musical devices hung on them.

In be-bop, a chord must be four notes. If you write a 'C' chord (C, E, G) and give it to a be-bopper, he will automatically play C, E, G, A, by convention. Two notes, Three notes...are not considered chords by a be-bopper...merely diads and triads.

Not so with Hindemith. So I decided to handle Hindemith's hollow structures as chords sans 3rds or 5ths, sometimes both, or what ever. After all, to take full advantage of the LCC the tones must be labeled as something.


This is the most important phase of the analysis, for this is were the critical decisions are being made. Everything that follows is totally dependent on this phase. The funny thing is that there are no absolutes. There is no requirement that everyone must see the material the same or that we must reach a consensus.
So this is were you bring all of your knowledge, training and experience to bear. The more you know the more you see.
And the oversight factor would be how we wish to use the information.

When I first purchased the 'concept' some years back, the title was, " The Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization for Improvisation". I don't know if the newer editions still carry this whole title, but Mr. Russell was clarifying the reason and motivation for the concepts existence right in the title. "…for improvisation!", he's telling you that this is a concept that MUST be played and heard. It's more than just another musical 'brain teaser'. It's a LIVING concept. It's all about SOUND.

Chord Analysis: Remember I'm treating Hindemith's voicing as a full chord.
I'm also including the guitar tab for you guitarist.

http://www.4shared.com/audio/X7sriHUk/S ... lysis.html
http://www.4shared.com/photo/56w0vw3D/S ... s__1_.html
http://www.4shared.com/photo/C7vmewTz/S ... s__2_.html

Everything is set up for the LCC analysis...NOW we will begin to uncover Hindemith.

[chespernevins]

Motherlode,

Do you have the option to save the Sibelius file as a .xml or or .mxl file? I could open those in MuseScore, but can't open .sib.

Thanks

[motherlode]

chespernevins'

Try this:
http://www.4shared.com/file/gf1SEzgq/So ... ier_2.html

Sure hope it works.

[chespernevins]

Hmm, not working yet.

The filename looks like this to me:

Sonate fur Flote und Klavier_2_12.mxi.sib

I think if you could save it as the following it would work:

Sonate fur Flote und Klavier_2_12.mxl

But you can't just name it that. When you choose "save as" you have to choose to save it as an .mxl file. If you do that, it won't get a .sib at the end of the filename.

I'm sure you know a lot more about your application than I do. I'm just throwing out my best guess. I don't want to put you to too much trouble. Then again, you already went all the way to the music store and special ordered the score!

[motherlode]

chespernevins,

Not too much trouble for me...it's what I do...

I tried to save it as "save as"...and Sibelius still added .sib to .mxi...I sent it anyway.

This is a print copy of the Sibelius scan. I didn't detect any wrong notes.
http://www.4shared.com/photo/DipFHKXa/S ... avier.html

What I do is scan the music into Sibelius and then edit. I was only trying to eliminate that step for anyone following this thread.

I might need to download MuseScore just to use here. After all, it's FREE.

Hey chespernevins...do you remember when we were talking form Egypt a year or so ago?. Anyway, the McDonalds that I was using for wifi is right down the street from where all the recent protests are taking place in Cairo.

You don't think that discussing the LCC there sparked a revolution do you? LOL.

[chespernevins]

Hey chespernevins...do you remember when we were talking form Egypt a year or so ago?. Anyway, the McDonalds that I was using for wifi is right down the street from where all the recent protests are taking place in Cairo.

No kidding!

You don't think that discussing the LCC there sparked a revolution do you? LOL.

lol! It could be. Oh the analogies...

Maybe it's also the fact the there is WiFi access at a local public restaurant? (A McDonalds no less)

[chespernevins]

Well, the good news is that I can see your .png image and it is pretty clear. So that's enough for me to follow your analysis.

If you want to try once more just for future info, notice that you are saving to a MXI file. MXI as in Mary Xray Indigo.

What MuseScore can open is an MXL file. MXL as in Mary Xray Lima.

MXL stands for Music XML file.

I had the imression that both Sibelius and MuseScore could handle this type of file.

[motherlode]

Step #4:

Now that we have labeled the chords, the next step is to map the Lydian tonics across the "Close to Distant Relationship" chart.
This procedure is so SIMPLE and beautiful for the information that it reveals that I'm still in awe after all these years.

What you have laid out before you is the complete harmonic migration of the music in question. No system I've ever seen speaks to this so eloquently.

A map of the Lydian tonics...information is power...!!

http://www.4shared.com/document/9TP7nu4 ... emith.html

I just had to post this...
After listening to the Sonata with the Lydian tonics sounding underneath...I immediately got this idea...strings for bars 7, 8 & 9, with Gong...I've always loved those far away sounds...

BINGO!...there it was...the Vanessa Carlton sound ("A Thousand Miles")?
See what I mean? The LCC is working already...

http://www.4shared.com/audio/VtGqOnTs/OrchHind.html

One last comment regarding the "Close to .....",
I always look to see how far the music ventures away from it's tonal center and how it returns. Hindemith goes all the way to the outside (+IV) at chords 8 and 27.
What's more interesting is that he pushes the envelope and leaves the 'flat side' to the 'sharp side', the sequence 25, 26, 27, & 28 before returning to his tonal center (Bb). Some would call this coming in the back door.
The 'Close to...." reveals the harmonic motion in a snapshot.

PLEASE DO NOT MISS THIS. These are NOT bass notes, per se. That's the sound of the LYDIAN TONICS against the song!! If you miss the significance of this...it's going to be up hill...both ways.

http://www.4shared.com/audio/aak1lKv7/S ... nics_.html

[motherlode]

Step #5:

The LCC is not a 'cookie cutter' process. The components can be fashioned to fit the needs of the user. Tonal Gravity is most amendable.
TG is mostly thought of as a horizontal process eg, one note following another (line) and the distance traveled between two notes over some fundamental source.

However, TG can also be used in an uncommon way, as a VERTICAL process.

Remember chords are named from the bottom up, but are voiced from the top down. The distance from the top note to the tonal source or Lydian tonic can be easily measured with TG.
So why is this important? To calculate tension.

Let me give you an example...
The minor 2nd. Full of tension, right? Well it depends on where it is in the chord voicing. On top, it's very bold (B, D, F#, G). However, if it's placed within the interval of a 6th (D, F#, G, B) it's soft and quite pleasing (Go ahead, play it on the piano and hear it for yourself...I'll wait LOL).

So if the music is of the maj, min, dom7th, etc. chord variety…it might not matter as much. But if you encounter #5(13th), b9/#9, #9(b13), etc. type chords…the vertical application of TG can certainly give you an artistic edge.

In our Hindemith example none of the latter type chords mentioned were used. However, I'll employ vertical TG analysis to the material... just to illustrate it's uncommon application.

In my chord analysis, the flute notes were included as part of the chord (this time) because the notes were so far inside that they were of little or no consequence. If the flute notes had been predominately outside, it would have required a different approach of coarse.

We want to know the distance of the lead voice (flute) from the Lydian Tonic…NOT the chord. Why not the chord? Because all the chords in a particular lydian family are interchangeable. The Lydian tonic is not, it's a constant. Think of this way, the Lydian tonic is the floor on which Tonal Gravity stands.
TG outlines the sonic space…AND helps us determine the proper placement of tones according to our taste.

The last piece of the puzzle:

http://www.4shared.com/audio/Sxhwl8C7/S ... avity.html
http://www.4shared.com/photo/gHelHp6W/S ... avity.html

At this point...the Lydian Tonic takes predominance over the chord.

There are only two things that ALL the members of the band have in common...the TEMPO and the CHANGES (note: not even the melody).

Everything we've done so far was to get to this point...ONE NOTE...the Lydian Tonic. With the knowledge of that one note and how it moves within the context of the song...we have total command. And I do mean total.
Therefore, the one who knows the most should be paid the most (that's right I said it). Just ask Stravinsky or Miles or even Hindemith about that (I noticed his estate doesn't have a whole lot of FREE music out there).

(Back on topic)
As you see the LCC is not in contention with any theory or style of music.
The LCC was the next logical step in the quest for total command.

I'm sorry that I couldn't hold anyone's hand with a detailed 'micro analysis'. But what you have here are the written as well as the sound files to examine at your leisure. Anyone that can understand what is contained in those files owes George Russell quite a debt.

And my personal response to the question, " Can George Russell's theories analyze Hindemith's music? ".
...GEEEZ!

In all fairness, any artist with such a massive body of work such as Hindemith can't possibly be captured after only looking at a few bars. It would take 45-50 such endeavors,...or more.
But you can take comfort in the fact that you have such a tool, the LCC, at your disposal that will allow you to do so...if so inclined.

(once again)...GEEEZ!

[bobappleton]

just wanted to thank you guys for this discussion - one of the best and most interesting in a long time - imho.

i'm so busy these days it's scary... and the greatest thing about the forum is that i can get back to this and read it all thoroughly - later...

b

[DroneDaily]

Step #5:


In my chord analysis, the flute notes were included (this time) because the notes were so far inside that they were of little consequence. If the flute notes had been predominately outside, it would have required a different approach.

We want to know the distance of the lead voice (flute) from the Lydian Tonic…NOT the chord. Why not the chord? Because all the chords in a particular lydian family are interchangeable. The Lydian tonic is a constant.
TG now defines the sonic space of the lead voice…AND helps us determine the sonic space that we wish to play or write in.

Can you elaborate on this?

[chespernevins]

What you're doing here is great ML.

Wanted to tell you guys I will be away from the computer next week.

I am looking forward to seeing your final chart(s) ML!

All the best to you guys and talk to you soon!

Chesperado

[motherlode]

Step #6:

This is where it all comes together.
I like to write on the fly so to speak…

http://www.4shared.com/document/C9KHAyN ... or_H_.html
http://www.4shared.com/audio/ewZ_f8E5/A ... for_H.html

As you see, I was able to put a spin on Hindemith because the LCC afforded me total command!!

I took the 'chord analysis' along with the 'close to…' and wrote something to express my FEELINGS at that moment based on the Hindemith work up.

I wrote in the same sonic space, also I used the same harmonies and themes as Hindemith (to make it easier to make the connection to the original piece of music).
The only original chords are at letter 'A'. I needed something to break it up.

I also replaced the flute with the guitar.
For the bass line I borrowed freely from the chord tonics and lydian tonics. It makes for more interesting colors.

And as a tribute to Hindemith, I CLOSED the piece with the same 'open intervals' that he BEGAN the 'Sonata' (a little 'tongue in cheek' humor).

There's a lot more that I could say about this exercise... But why bother? You have all the music! The one thing that sticks out in my mind is how much fun it was...