A Closer Read

Discussions on the theoretical basis of the LCC

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Postby Bob » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:25 am

It would be nice to hear about other Lydian practise tips.
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Postby dogbite » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:28 am

Bob:

As indicated on Chart A, and recently highlighted by dogbite, the Lydian Tonic of a prevailing chordmode is found on one of the chord tones.

It would be nice to hear about other Lydian practise tips.

dogbite:

imho, this is actually one one of the best practice regimens - to take a chord chart, locate the lydian tonic of each chord, and play it on top of the modal tonic as a two note "chord" for a visualization of VTG as applied to that particular tune:

All The Things...

Fm7

Ab
F

Bbm7

Db
Bb

Eb7

Db
Eb

Abmaj7

Ab
Ab

Dbmaj7

Db
Db

Dm7

F
D

G7

F
G

Cmaj7

C
C

this will give you

1) lydian tonic

2) lydian tonic interval

3) modal tonic

from the outset, then to construct the principal scales from each lydian tonic (example given here - first five tones of lydian member scale)

Fm7

Ab Bb C D Eb
F

Bbm7

Db Eb F G Ab
Bb

Eb7

Db Eb F G Ab
Eb

Abmaj7

Ab Bb C D Eb
Ab

Dbmaj7

Db Eb F G Ab
Db

Dm7

F G A B C
D

G7

F G A B C
G

Cmaj7

C D E F# G
C

***

i know it seems basic, but the idea is to do this:

1) quickly
2) effortlessly
3) flawlessly

and with charts you may not have seen before...

too basic? too CST-like? too obvious?

perhaps, but the "lydian-hanon" exercise could be developed to a fine-tuned instinct with such an approach and i am understandably curious what you guys think of this, especially as applied to other member scales and sequential-type exercises,

Db
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Postby Bob » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:41 am

These approaches have worked well. To
1) lydian tonic

2) lydian tonic interval

3) modal tonic


Adding the notes that have changed in the move from one parent scale to another to these pitch collections, helps give a sense of resolution (following Chespers schemata in his recent CMG threads.

Sequences do add a sense of cohesion a line.

Another approach toward the
fine-tuned instinct
is adapting the 'Byrnesian' target note notion in the LCC environment by emphasizing the reduced melody, and guide tones in addition to the modal tonic, thus maintaining a connection to the tune. If 'midi-ed' they make nice play-along tracks.

A bass thing that has helped relieved the stress of being "lost in LC space' is long-metering the changes and playing a 'funk' or 'latin' ostinato that evolves with the the change of chordmode.

Keep the tips coming. We could collect them into a graded Lydian practise manual as a separate thread.

I wonder who wrote the examples in Ch IV. Different examples in the '59 edition were "written by a student."
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Postby Bob » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:25 am

For Chs. IV & V, a 'closer read' has become more of a 'closer' or focused practise. It's what was missing through previous passes through '59 through the 4th edition. Doing the tests and studying the examples carefully, but also improvising on the ideas suggested by them. As implied by the last sentence on p. 66, preparing a lead sheet (with the addition of the Reduced Melody) with the basic chord symbol and Lydian symbol (eg, G-7 > Bb VI, then playing on each. Next, going from one to the other. Deriving the parent scales from the changes and then the changes from the Lydian symbol without reference to the other, is burning the LCC into my psyche. It's been informative to do a 'naive' analysis of the same material. Noting chord tones, passing tones, nts, ets, etc., both to see how far one gets without a Lydian analysis helps me to understand what the Lydian analysis adds: Tonal Gravity and how the transitions from ingoing to outgoing occur and noting how the various scale alter the basic changes without consulting Chart A (F-7 with LA becomes Fmin/maj 7, with LD becomes F-7b5 and so on. pp 68-77 sharpens the eye & ear for enharmonic spelling. experiencing how the scales express the chords with the starkest accompaniment, they are 'chordmodes' indeed, not just from a 'scale syllabus' to run over a chord. It starts coming from within, not just from reading a theory text as an intellectual exercise (which I tend to do). This will come as no surprise to the LCC heavies (which I'm not). Of course, without accompaniment (or piano left hand), is what's happening musically coherent i.e., meaningful. How's it going. It's happening, even with a modicum of musical talent. Thanks, GR for some light to bask in.
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Postby Bob » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:10 pm

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:00 pm Originally posted by Sandy Williams

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the great myths about the LCC, perpetuated my folks with only the most cursory knowledge of it, is that the Concept says the Lydian scale is ‘better’ than the Major scale or supplants it. The fact is that the Lydian scale exists in a state of vertical tonal gravity and the Major scale in a horizontal state of tonal gravity.


Just found this. This is the response to the majority of criticism and objection to the LCC. Thanks, Sandy.
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Chapter Six

Postby Bob » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:49 am

Hah! What I missed [ADD?] on a previous pass through Ch 6 re: Alternative Modal Tonics (AMT), is that by choosing an AMT for a chord you've moved to a different Lydian Chromatic Scale (LC). I had assumed you just found another scale to play through the chord, but it appears you have 'modulated" Chart A to a 'different key' or Lydian Tonic, thus just broadly expanding the resources. The example given is the C-7b5, which first occurs as a #IV of the Gb Lydian scale (i.e., Gb LC). By using the AMT VI, it first occurs as the VI of the LD scale. As a VI, it's Lydian tonic is now on the b3 of the chord, putting it in the Eb LC. Now the resources of that LC are available especially ADB VI. With II7, a plethora of AMTs are available.

Note the 'rule' on p. 111:

...whenever a minor chord is followed by a 7th chord a 5th below, one LC scale may be retained by assigning the +IV AMT degree to the minor chord and the VII AMT degree to the 7th chord. This is also the case when the VI scale degree is assigned to the minor chord, and the II scale degree to the following 7th chord a 5th below.
Cool.

(by substituting a 7th chord for the -7, the possibilities expand exponentially.)
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CMGs

Postby Bob » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:38 am

For a closer read of CMGs, you can't get much better than chespernevins threads: CMGs; Resolving tendencies... Autumn Leaves ... CMGs (long); Cycle of Doom.
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Postby Bob » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:19 am

Here's a view of Chart A from the 'tradtional' modal perspective:

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg19 ... fModes.jpg

The CMGs are the mixolydian and ionian resting on major triads and the aeolian and phyrgian on the minor triads.
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Postby Bob » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:01 am

See also CMG related threads by strachs
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repost

Postby Bob » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:08 pm

Just to keep my eggs in one basket:

In my 'pre-close read' state of coming to terms with CMGs, a few hypotheses:

CMG is a bridge to Vol 2 and in a sense an initial rapprochement with traditional major/minor theory of harmonic movement and as such, a prelude to Vol 2. It takes into account the traditional modes and allows that III V II and VII, can function as more than inversions, noting that they are also major and minor triads.

Chord substitution is discussed in the 1959 edition but not in the 4th edition, perhaps because a full exposition might best be saved for Vol 2, because it concerns HTG primarily.

A few approaches to chord substitution are
1. Substitute more 'outgoing' chordmodes, i.e., going down the column in Chart A. This produces more 'alteration' of color than different root movement, but does have subtle implications for resolving the chord, especially when using the symmetrical scales.
2. As noted in the '59 edition, the chords of the parent Lydian scale are interchangeable. As such the CMG major and minor triads may be heard as 'tonic stations' representing a 'transitory modulation' an effect that is enhanced by preceding the CMG with its own 'dominant 7th,' or 'ii-V7.'
3. It opens the door to 'modal substitution' and 'bi-chordal' strategies.
4. I don't know if Vol 1 gets us to tritone substitution or 'Coltrane changes,' but this can be inferred by the symmetrical structures of the LYD, LA, LD and the AUX scales, and it would be a surprise if not fully addressed in Vol 2.
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Postby Bob » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:04 am

CMG tag:

On 126 says that if it's a v, you can use the 11 member scales of the parent LC with it. If it's an h, the 8 PMGS of the concptual parent LC scale (i.e., the far left column) resolve to it


On to SMGs (Gulp!)
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Postby Bob » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:56 pm

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Pattern Seeking

Postby Bob » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:31 am

SMG: Is there a pattern or principle?
Coltrane (Straight No Chaser):
LII > LA VI
LII > L VII
LII > LA V+
LII > LA VII

Miles (Four):
LA VI > L bIII
L VI > L bVI 9 t.o.

Dolphy (to be continued...)
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Postby Bob » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:33 am

Eric Dolphy (245)
II > LA VI
Vi > LA VII
II > LA bVI ?
II > L VI
II > LA III
VI > LA bII ?

? using LC

I'm getting confused. :?

I will revisit this after more coffee &/or sleep.
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A Closer Read of the 4 Horizontal Scales

Postby Bob » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:45 am

1. Major is major
2. Major Sharp 5th: with the (V) aka Major Bebop scale; without the (V) aka VI harmonic minor.
3. Major Flat Seventh aka Mixolydian mode.
4. African-American Blues Scale is a composite of major and the blues hexachord (1 b3 4 b5 5 b7).
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