Page 1 of 1

Horizontal Tonal Gravity

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:40 pm
by Bob
It seems that Hindemith's Composition Vol I works in lieu of LCC Vol II. PH discusses "HTG" in a chromatic (12-tonal) environment. Refer to the discussion of root progression, degree progression, and theory of melody with the bonus of a way to control for fluctuation of harmonic tension.

(AAJ post-mortum: An entertaining food fight ending on a deceptive cadence enharmonically spelled in Bb/A#)

chromaticus

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:03 pm
by dogbite
epitaph

the destruction of the battlestar chromactica

the circle of doom prevails:

C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E A D G C, etc...

it's really all about "possibilities", isn't it?

Db

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:30 pm
by Bob
I'm not sure we're on the same page. Correct me if I'm wrong, but chromaticism refers to the introduction of notes 'foreign' to the (excuse the expression) diatonic scale or mode upon which the composition is based. To the problem of using the resources of the chromatic scale (Lydian chromatic scale, if you prefer) as a whole, consider three approaches: 12-tone/set theory, where initially all 12 pitches (pitch-classes) are considered equal, but the idea of interval vectors can be used to articulate tonal centers (tonic stations) if that is your pleasure. LCC stacks the first 7 ascending fifths and arrives at a Lydian scale which serves as the "core" of the chromatic scale.
PH (this might be too fuzzy) starts with common practise and the aural-conditioning of the 'western ear' to generalize and extend principles of root movement, degree progression, melody etc. to 'free' the resources of the chromatic scale from being tied to a core scale but not at the expense of tonality. But you still have to blow on it, so a synthesis of these ideas might have some merit. :idea:

{there are other solutions in play. For example, a strong bass-drums ostinato over which pentatonic melodies (which have a life of there own), or damn near anything sounds ok. )

footnotes:
*root movement in fifths is considered in PH as the strongest harmonic interval
**the circle of fifths is the result of tempered tuning, i.e., an approximation of nature, a cultural construct.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:05 pm
by dogbite
bob

you and me not on the same page, bob? tell me it ain't so!

i used to think that bob a's commentary was laced with metaphor, but yours is absolutely rich. please consider this a compliment, as i learn much from both you guys by having to look this stuff up, but consider this:

1) PH was fully aware that he was operating under a twelve-tone environment

2) i don't believe PH to have felt restrained by the constraints of diatonicism

3) the circle of fifths may be an artificial cultural construct, but it's a darn good one

ps - if we're still not on the same page, help me out here - i wanna see where you're going with this

dog

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:11 pm
by Bob
We are in agreement on the points you mentioned.

Where am I going? The interest is in compositionally creating an interesting environment on which to improvise. In my little corner of the world, the players who could just react by ear, and come out with beautiful stuff are getting long in the tooth. Something to do with a shift from the jam session to an academic paradigm, and factionalism. A variety of solutions are out there, for example, Wayne Shorter's Ana Maria - here's this interesting composition, but just blow on these two chords. Latin Jazz has solutions built in, what with montunos, choros, interludes etc. That may be the way to go. It certainly is a way to go. In the LCCTO, the form and structure is apparently pre-supposed, and presumably, how to get the chords and form in the first place will be the topic of Vol II. For now, one writes, studies other's compositions, and looks at the work of those who have thought about it. I'm basically thinking about "what happens when you put the LCC, Hindemith, and set theory in a bag and shake it?" (I almost got through without a metaphor or a circle of metafifths). In the meantime, I am grateful for clave.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:31 pm
by DroneDaily
Bob wrote:We are in agreement on the points you mentioned.

Where am I going? The interest is in compositionally creating an interesting environment on which to improvise. I'm basically thinking about "what happens when you put the LCC, Hindemith, and set theory in a bag and shake it?"


I was thinking something very similiar...