Standard major scale progessions

The main body of the LCC and its practical application, including all 4 published versions of Book 1 with their inserts: the 1959 tan cover; the 1959 light green cover Japanese edition; the 1970‘s white cover, which adds an illustrated River Trip to the 1959 edition, and the currently available Fourth Edition, 2001.

The authorization code is the first word on Page 198 of the Fourth Edition of the LCCTO.

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Standard major scale progessions

Postby bennyweinbeck » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:12 pm

Hello,
I've just started reading the LCCOTO, and right now my biggest question is:
How do I apply this to standards, or II,V7,I type tunes.
Do I do away with key centers?
For example a tune like Blue Moon, basically a I,VI,II,V tune in Eb;
If I were to play the changes totally inside(no altered chords)
Would I just think in terms of Ab Lydian as the Principal ?,(or Lydian Key)
Does this make sense?
Thanks,
Benny Weinbeck
(:?:)
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Re: Standard major scale progessions

Postby Andrew » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:55 pm

You don't have to do away with key centers, but you have to think of them differently. You play F-, Bb-, Eb7 gravitate downward to the final Lydian Tonic, similar to the idea rxpressed on page eight of the LCCOTO. So the Concept really embraces the idea of having key centers in I VI II V progressions. The application of progressions like these are different though. Abmaj7 would be played with an Ab Lydian I chordmode alliance, F- with a Ab Lydian VI Chordmode Alliance, Bb- with a Db Lydian VI chordmode alliance, and Eb7 with a Db lydian chordmode alliance. The use of naming the chords diatonically represents a horizontal approach, and this volume deals with the vertical approach. Hope this helps?
Last edited by Andrew on Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sandywilliams » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:15 pm

In Benny’s Blue Moon in Eb example the chords are Eb, Cmi, Fmi, and Bb7. This is consistant for the [A] sections of the song. The bridge has brief visit to Gb. You can certainly play an Eb major scale ( a horizontal scale) over all but the brief Gb section. You may also improvise or write vertically over each one of the chords. This might open up some interesting melodic doors for you. You are free to change the quality of chords such as making it Eb7, C7, F7, Bb7. This would create more possibilities. How ‘bout writing a new tune based on Blue Moon!
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Standard progressions

Postby bennyweinbeck » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:06 pm

Thank you for your replies. They helped.
Does horizontal really mean based on the major scale? And vertical is based on the LCC scales, or does it go much deeper than that, and I need to absorb more of what I'm reading.
I really appreciate everyones help, I'm determined to understand and utilize this as far as I can. It has helped my improv already, and I really
am only scratching the surface. I hope that I can reach the point where I can help people understand it as well.
I've been using the horizontal approach for way too long.
I know, I know, "read the book". I am.
Thanks,
Benny Weinbeck
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Postby sandywilliams » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:58 pm

Vertical, as in chords are vertical entities. You stack the notes from low to high 1,3,5,7,9,11,13 (in tertian harmony). Melodies can reflect vertical structures such as an arpeggio. The tools in Vol. I of the LCC give you the musical equivalent of the Crayola set with all the colors( you know, the one that comes with a crayon sharpener as opposed to the set with only seven colors!) for vertical thinking.
Horizontal, as in the melody to Sonnymoon for Two or Bag’s Groove is a blues scale (in the key of the respective tune). This blues scale may be played over a plethora of vertical entities and still retain its bluesy quality. Check out the melody to Stella by Starlight. The entire melody is except for one note is in the Bb major scale. Vol. II of the LCC promises to go into great detail about horizontal thinking.
PS: Should you want to explore the nature of improvising itself you might want to pick up Derek Bailey’s : Improvisation: Its Nature and Practice in Music
http://www.amazon.com/Improvisation-Its ... 0306805286
You can read the reviews on Amazon.
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Standard progressions

Postby bennyweinbeck » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:03 pm

Wow!
That's a great explanation. Thank you Sandy. I will definitely check out the book.
I now understand vertical and horizontal.
By the way does anyone have an idea of when vol. 2 will be published?
Maybe by then I'll have a better grasp of the concept.
Thanks again, you've really helped.
Benny Weinbeck :D
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Postby sandywilliams » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:00 pm

One of the great myths about the LCC, perpetuated my folks with only the most cursory knowledge of it, is that the Concept says the Lydian scale is ‘better’ than the Major scale or supplants it. The fact is that the Lydian scale exists in a state of vertical tonal gravity and the Major scale in a horizontal state of tonal gravity.
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Postby bobappleton » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:40 pm

I just want to echo and really applaud 2 of Sandy's comments here:

First the Derek Bailey book! It's one of the very few pieces of music literature dealing with the idea and breadth of improvisation as a concept. Also do check out Bailey's album Standards. People often find his music relatively "difficult". So it's amazing to hear his interpretations of standard melodies here. Like they say "imagination is more important than knowledge." I got my copy on emusic.

Secondly – what about his "One of the great myths about the LCC, perpetuated my folks with only the most cursory knowledge of it, is that the Concept says the Lydian scale is ‘better’ than the Major scale or supplants it. The fact is that the Lydian scale exists in a state of vertical tonal gravity and the Major scale in a horizontal state of tonal gravity." That's just so insightful man. Thank you.

And hey, theree was much more like from several people on the old "Forum". Maybe someone will find it one day.
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Postby bobappleton » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:55 pm

Just another dumb note to say I'm glad the Phentermines have left.

Now I don't have to make that joke about the Concept being Phat.

B
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Postby bobappleton » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:57 pm

Correction: The Derek Bailey album is called Ballads, not Standards. Oops.

http://www.amazon.com/Ballads-Derek-Bai ... B000063BUW
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