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Pie on Ears

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:15 pm
by DroneDaily
This has been touched on by a few people but i thought a more in depth discussion, not necessarily about theory but about tastefulness and vibe. Who are the modern day torch-bearers for the LCC? Hiro Honshuku comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LKf1CijZic
He's a pioneer as much as Russell was because the LCC is still so new and unexplored. How long has classical harmony existed? We have thousands of examples good and bad for that. What (who) for the LCC? Also, who (around the time of Russell or even before him) could be considered a pioneer of this style? Hindemith comes to mind, but who else? and most importantly DO THEY SOUND GOOD? Please share your thoughts...

Re: Pie on Ears

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:36 pm
by DroneDaily
motherlode wrote:I'm sorry, maybe it's just your choice of words, but you do realize that the LCC is not a 'style' of music?


its an approach to music, just like classical harmony is an approach to composing, or jazz harmony, or serialism, all of which are imbedded in a style of music, i'm not saying Bach and Mozart are the same or anything like that, and there are death metal and black metal bands that use schoenberg's system which creates an entirely different sound in their respective genres. who is using the LCC currently? do they sound good? who sound like they might be applying the LCC (intentionally or instinctively)? the LCC allows musicians to come to note choices and combinations that someone otherwise might not come to. i don't think i can phrase it any better. who are these pioneers? if you don't think notable artists using russell's system (or that could be using it) is a valid topic of discussion have the admin delete this post.

Re: Pie on Ears

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:50 pm
by DroneDaily
Ran Blake is phenomenal. Toru Takemitsu has a quote on the dust jacket (or somewhere) of the 4th edition that says how much the LCC inspired him (or something to that effect). What i have heard of his music, which is not a great deal, he seems to be using Messiaen's modes of limited transposition, or something similiar. Artists like Ran Blake and Debussy downplayed the role theory played in composing and relied solely on their ears to create wonderful works, in debussy's case his compositions implied scales like the whole tone scale which was (to my knowledge) invented by people studying debussy's music. He used it instinctively. Who uses the LCC in such a way? I would say hindemith is a precursor, his approach and his theories are the closest thing to the LCC before it existed, Hindemith instinctively leaned in that direction, in his own music he found classical harmony limited (though he employed it, taught it, and wrote two books about it for educational purposes) and atonality but one avenue to travel down in a piece, he despised 12 tone music and tone clusters because he thought they were auditory novelties and weren't musical avenues to go down. He had the concept of tonal gravity. If third stream music wasn't eclipsed by free jazz after WW2 i think Russells concept would have reached more people. I have some guitarist and bassist friends who come up with the strangest and most interesting note choices, which when listened to in the context of what they are doing make a lot of sense, and i think that they may be instinctively using the lydian modes and tonics. King Buzzo from The Melvins has some bizzare and creative combinations of notes which aren't quite atonal and aren't completely chromatic, hearing him i wonder if his brain and his ears are geared toward the LCC. I'm not experienced enough to comment, i'm still working through Russell's book without a teacher ( i can't afford one ) and its a struggle for me. Part of the reason i created this post is to get people using their ears and listening to modern music to see how much it relates to the LCC. I want to know some modern artists who might be using it, besides Jazzers like coltrane who are now dead. Kurt Cobain and Neil Young have some interesting note choices when they solo, and so does david gilmour. There was a band called Television who played a lot of modal stuff, though my ears aren't telling me they instinctively used the LCC. A band called Helmet is pretty modal, the singer/guitarist page hamilton is a classically trained jazz guitarist, but he breaks a lot of rules in his songs. There are some fairly new bands lumped into a genre called 'djent' which have a very modern approach to harmony, such as Animals as Leaders, and Periphery. What about Primus? Listen to Les Claypool's basslines! (in case you can't tell by now i'm not huge into jazz but i like jazz harmony). I'm trying to create some discussion and maybe get turned on to a few good artists or get a few answers.

Re: Pie on Ears

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:36 am
by DroneDaily
Thanks, i'll definitely try your suggestions. I'm currently learning North and South Indian rhythmic theory (which also start by vocalizing phrases before actually playing them) and that's occupying a large majority of my free time; but i can make time. One newer artist you would definitely like is Jeff Buckley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXe1jpHPnUs he's got some really cool chord progressions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRNeGC7k5J8 i love how he sings the higher harmony in this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP_eHGYz ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=526VvItsx1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3adFWKE9JE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhd-zImzoiI

Re: Pie on Ears

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:32 pm
by bobappleton
<Bobappleton is knowledgable about this sort of thing. >

Hi, I just found this thread... I've been in Scotland for the past few weeks... Will check it out and respond...

Re: Pie on Ears

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:15 am
by bobappleton
Well, I certainly recognize what Motherlode is talking about here. In some places it's also called "acting as if" or "walking the walk" meaning that we become convinced of our own knowledge when we hear or see ourselves acting it out.

In Neuroacoustic research, bio-Tuning is the term for this. By using one's own voice... "One... experiences a profound sense of subconscious recognition of the vibration frequencies... one’s body is kinetically resonated to the cellular level." [url]http://www.neuroacoustic.com/biotuning.html[url]

Also reminds me of Pat Metheny's quote which I put online here http://soundcloud.com/bebopple/pat-metheney-on-sound-matching The whole video is here http://youtu.be/cCMnPb0qLIU

b

Re: Pie on Ears

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:30 am
by bobappleton
here's one for you DD (tongue in cheek)
http://youtu.be/NMv7gQERNzI