Pie on Ears

The main body of the LCC and its practical application, including all 4 published versions of Book 1 with their inserts: the 1959 tan cover; the 1959 light green cover Japanese edition; the 1970‘s white cover, which adds an illustrated River Trip to the 1959 edition, and the currently available Fourth Edition, 2001.

The authorization code is the first word on Page 198 of the Fourth Edition of the LCCTO.

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An open letter from Alice Russell. June 21, 2011, Brookline, Massachusetts. 1. DO NOT make insulting, mean spirited remarks about anyone or their work; there are a plethora of sites where you can rant unfettered. If you attack someone personally, your comments will be removed. You can post it, but I'm not paying for it. Go elsewhere, and let those artists who are actually interested in discussion and learning have the floor. 2. There will be NO posting of or links to copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner. That's the law. And if you respect the work of people who make meaningful contributions, you should have no problem following this policy. 3. I appreciate many of the postings from so many of you. Please don't feel you have to spend your time "defending" the LCC to those who come here with the express purpose of disproving it. George worked for decades to disprove it himself; if you know his music, there's no question that it has gravity. And a final word: George was famous for his refusal to lower his standards in all areas of his life, no matter the cost. He twice refused concerts of his music at Lincoln Center Jazz because of their early position on what was authentically jazz. So save any speculation about the level of him as an artist and a man. The quotes on our websites were not written by George; they were written by critics/writers/scholars/fans over many years. Sincerely, Alice

Pie on Ears

Postby DroneDaily » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:15 pm

This has been touched on by a few people but i thought a more in depth discussion, not necessarily about theory but about tastefulness and vibe. Who are the modern day torch-bearers for the LCC? Hiro Honshuku comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LKf1CijZic
He's a pioneer as much as Russell was because the LCC is still so new and unexplored. How long has classical harmony existed? We have thousands of examples good and bad for that. What (who) for the LCC? Also, who (around the time of Russell or even before him) could be considered a pioneer of this style? Hindemith comes to mind, but who else? and most importantly DO THEY SOUND GOOD? Please share your thoughts...
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Re: Pie on Ears

Postby DroneDaily » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:36 pm

motherlode wrote:I'm sorry, maybe it's just your choice of words, but you do realize that the LCC is not a 'style' of music?


its an approach to music, just like classical harmony is an approach to composing, or jazz harmony, or serialism, all of which are imbedded in a style of music, i'm not saying Bach and Mozart are the same or anything like that, and there are death metal and black metal bands that use schoenberg's system which creates an entirely different sound in their respective genres. who is using the LCC currently? do they sound good? who sound like they might be applying the LCC (intentionally or instinctively)? the LCC allows musicians to come to note choices and combinations that someone otherwise might not come to. i don't think i can phrase it any better. who are these pioneers? if you don't think notable artists using russell's system (or that could be using it) is a valid topic of discussion have the admin delete this post.
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Re: Pie on Ears

Postby DroneDaily » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:50 pm

Ran Blake is phenomenal. Toru Takemitsu has a quote on the dust jacket (or somewhere) of the 4th edition that says how much the LCC inspired him (or something to that effect). What i have heard of his music, which is not a great deal, he seems to be using Messiaen's modes of limited transposition, or something similiar. Artists like Ran Blake and Debussy downplayed the role theory played in composing and relied solely on their ears to create wonderful works, in debussy's case his compositions implied scales like the whole tone scale which was (to my knowledge) invented by people studying debussy's music. He used it instinctively. Who uses the LCC in such a way? I would say hindemith is a precursor, his approach and his theories are the closest thing to the LCC before it existed, Hindemith instinctively leaned in that direction, in his own music he found classical harmony limited (though he employed it, taught it, and wrote two books about it for educational purposes) and atonality but one avenue to travel down in a piece, he despised 12 tone music and tone clusters because he thought they were auditory novelties and weren't musical avenues to go down. He had the concept of tonal gravity. If third stream music wasn't eclipsed by free jazz after WW2 i think Russells concept would have reached more people. I have some guitarist and bassist friends who come up with the strangest and most interesting note choices, which when listened to in the context of what they are doing make a lot of sense, and i think that they may be instinctively using the lydian modes and tonics. King Buzzo from The Melvins has some bizzare and creative combinations of notes which aren't quite atonal and aren't completely chromatic, hearing him i wonder if his brain and his ears are geared toward the LCC. I'm not experienced enough to comment, i'm still working through Russell's book without a teacher ( i can't afford one ) and its a struggle for me. Part of the reason i created this post is to get people using their ears and listening to modern music to see how much it relates to the LCC. I want to know some modern artists who might be using it, besides Jazzers like coltrane who are now dead. Kurt Cobain and Neil Young have some interesting note choices when they solo, and so does david gilmour. There was a band called Television who played a lot of modal stuff, though my ears aren't telling me they instinctively used the LCC. A band called Helmet is pretty modal, the singer/guitarist page hamilton is a classically trained jazz guitarist, but he breaks a lot of rules in his songs. There are some fairly new bands lumped into a genre called 'djent' which have a very modern approach to harmony, such as Animals as Leaders, and Periphery. What about Primus? Listen to Les Claypool's basslines! (in case you can't tell by now i'm not huge into jazz but i like jazz harmony). I'm trying to create some discussion and maybe get turned on to a few good artists or get a few answers.
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Re: Pie on Ears

Postby DroneDaily » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:36 am

Thanks, i'll definitely try your suggestions. I'm currently learning North and South Indian rhythmic theory (which also start by vocalizing phrases before actually playing them) and that's occupying a large majority of my free time; but i can make time. One newer artist you would definitely like is Jeff Buckley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXe1jpHPnUs he's got some really cool chord progressions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRNeGC7k5J8 i love how he sings the higher harmony in this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP_eHGYz ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=526VvItsx1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3adFWKE9JE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhd-zImzoiI
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Re: Pie on Ears

Postby bobappleton » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:32 pm

<Bobappleton is knowledgable about this sort of thing. >

Hi, I just found this thread... I've been in Scotland for the past few weeks... Will check it out and respond...
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Re: Pie on Ears

Postby bobappleton » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:15 am

Well, I certainly recognize what Motherlode is talking about here. In some places it's also called "acting as if" or "walking the walk" meaning that we become convinced of our own knowledge when we hear or see ourselves acting it out.

In Neuroacoustic research, bio-Tuning is the term for this. By using one's own voice... "One... experiences a profound sense of subconscious recognition of the vibration frequencies... one’s body is kinetically resonated to the cellular level." [url]http://www.neuroacoustic.com/biotuning.html[url]

Also reminds me of Pat Metheny's quote which I put online here http://soundcloud.com/bebopple/pat-metheney-on-sound-matching The whole video is here http://youtu.be/cCMnPb0qLIU

b
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Re: Pie on Ears

Postby bobappleton » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:30 am

here's one for you DD (tongue in cheek)
http://youtu.be/NMv7gQERNzI
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