quarter tones

The main body of the LCC and its practical application, including all 4 published versions of Book 1 with their inserts: the 1959 tan cover; the 1959 light green cover Japanese edition; the 1970‘s white cover, which adds an illustrated River Trip to the 1959 edition, and the currently available Fourth Edition, 2001.

The authorization code is the first word on Page 198 of the Fourth Edition of the LCCTO.

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quarter tones

Postby DroneDaily » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:06 pm

can the LCC be used to understand music that relies on quarter tones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOSg56z1s2M

this is an honest question
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Postby guitarjazz » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:04 pm

I'm not an expert in quarter-tone music but I don't think it is ever mentioned in the LCC. Equal temperament is mentioned. I'm sure the principals of tonal gravity could be extrapolated to include aspects of quarter-tone music. The type of music in the video strikes me as being horizontal, melody based and not vertical, chord based.
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Postby chespernevins » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:12 pm

The LCC is strictly based in equal temperament.
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Postby guitarjazz » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:34 pm

"Q:Of course some music systems don't use equal temperament. Your concept doesn't relate to those systems, does it?
GR: It relates more to what happened before the introduction of equal temperament going back to the Pythagorean scale based on natural fifths. Even though they established equal temperament, they let the major scale represent the highest and most glorious fulfillment of musical tonality. They invested in it far more power that it should have had, for it doesn't actually contain within itself that much knowledge. If the theorists had kept the philosophical meaning of the Pythagorean tuning along with the invention of equal temperament, the resultant ideas would have been much closer to the truth. The Lydian scale would have emerged natually."
From The Black Perspective in Music, Vol. 2, No. 1(Spring, 1974), p.71.
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Postby strachs » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:25 am

Your reference to "The Black Perspective In Music" led me to this:

http://www.criticalimprov.com/rt/printerFriendly/7/18

which I'm sure GR fans will appreciate.
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Postby bobappleton » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:10 am

chespernevins wrote:The LCC is strictly based in equal temperament.


in my interpretation of the lcc, this statement of chespers' is rather limiting.

even in it's application to the past - and to the electronic music which is a significant part of gr's vocabulary - the idea that the lcc should be 'strictly based' in the physical limits of analog pianoforte construction of 17th century italy (which is equal temperament) seems out of tune.

imho, if you took the electronic, ambient and unequal temperament sounds out of the living time orchestra, it would just be another big band.

it's the inclusion of all sonic possibilities within the lcc that makes it great. excluding these now (like some kind of wynton marsalis-esque jazz police) is simply wrong to me. and i have to stand for the "freedom" with control that george spoke so eloquently about.

b
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Postby chespernevins » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:14 am

bobappleton wrote:
chespernevins wrote:The LCC is strictly based in equal temperament.


in my interpretation of the lcc, this statement of chespers' is rather limiting.

even in it's application to the past - and to the electronic music which is a significant part of gr's vocabulary - the idea that the lcc should be 'strictly based' in the physical limits of analog pianoforte construction of 17th century italy (which is equal temperament) seems out of tune.

imho, if you took the electronic, ambient and unequal temperament sounds out of the living time orchestra, it would just be another big band.

it's the inclusion of all sonic possibilities within the lcc that makes it great. excluding these now (like some kind of wynton marsalis-esque jazz police) is simply wrong to me. and i have to stand for the "freedom" with control that george spoke so eloquently about.

b


Perhaps my one liner response of "strictly based" was too snippy. My desire was not to limit discussion or imagination. I would offer this, though.

George's classroom was down the hall from Joe Maneri's, where we studied the 72-note octave.

It was also down the hall from where Abby Rabinovitz taught Indian music.

I remember students asking George about the Concept and microtonality, and George responded that the LCC dealt with equal temperment.

With regards to the question posed by the OP, I don't see how the info in the LCC books could be directly used in understanding music that uses quarter tones.

I do agree with guitarjazz's statement that "the principals of tonal gravity could be extrapolated to include aspects of quarter-tone music".

I wouldn't, however, point someone to the LCC as a primary course of study for understanding microtonal music.
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Postby bobappleton » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:12 pm

strachs wrote:Your reference to "The Black Perspective In Music" led me to this:

http://www.criticalimprov.com/rt/printerFriendly/7/18

which I'm sure GR fans will appreciate.


strachs: thanks for this very interesting article. critical improv is based near here at the university of guelph, and the writer of the piece in your link, alan stanbridge, teaches at the university of toronto (which is even closer).

it's an objective review of one small aspect of george's work made with academic rigor. he brings up many interesting points including the idea that a cultural analyst "must forego the “veritiesâ€
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Postby bobappleton » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:19 pm

chespernevins wrote:Perhaps my one liner response of "strictly based" was too snippy.


agreed chesper :')
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