Putting LCC to work.

The main body of the LCC and its practical application, including all 4 published versions of Book 1 with their inserts: the 1959 tan cover; the 1959 light green cover Japanese edition; the 1970‘s white cover, which adds an illustrated River Trip to the 1959 edition, and the currently available Fourth Edition, 2001.

The authorization code is the first word on Page 198 of the Fourth Edition of the LCCTO.

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Putting LCC to work.

Postby Fer Carranza » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:27 am

Hi, I´m taking again before a few years an aproach to unusual scales that I created for composition. I was doing it several years ago, before I meet the LCC. Now, I want to order these scales into the tonal orders gived by the book. In example in a scale named Azul with this notes: C-Db-E-F-G#-A-Bb, I categorized it like Horizontal 12 tonal order, by the presence of F (IV) and horizontal by the abscence of #IV. Is this right??? You should do it in that way???? thanks!!!!!!
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Postby Andrew » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:41 am

The scale does have a very dominant sound, so you could call it a Bb Lydian (II) ten tone order scale, because of the presence of the G#.
"Life finds a way"- Wayne Shorter
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Postby sandywilliams » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:42 am

Fernando,
I think your analysis is correct if you are using it in a horizontal manner with C as the key. Those same notes are very close to what is commonly called the Db augmented scale, Db, E,F.G#,A, C. Though this scale isn’t found in the LCC book you can certainly use the Concept to put it in the context of tonal gravity. The Db aug scale is just a Db augmented triad with half-step approaches to each note. You could say the Db aug scale is a combination of a Db augmented triad and a C augmented triad. Looking at your scale vertically, it would fall into the Db nine-tone tonal order. This would still be the case with the Bb note added.
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Postby Fer Carranza » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:26 am

thanks for your approaches to this subject!!!!! Your points of views brings to me new landscapes to work harmonically with this scale that I never thinked. One can addapt the order of the notes to put it to work vertically like you said. thanks again,
Fernando
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Postby chespernevins » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:16 am

There are so many possibilities with the LCC, right?

Here's another way to look at it:

If you think the scale has a horizontal character, look for a major or minor triad that the scale resolves to.

I can hear this collection of notes resolving to an F Major triad. (it's not the only one, but it may be the strongest one. There's a Db major triad and an A Major triad, but neither of those have a fourth up from Db or A for us to clearly determine its horizontal nature).

So, given the horizontal resolution to an F Major triad, the scale could be called BbVh (10TO). It could also be Db IIIh (9TO). And it could be F Ih (11TO).

You’re looking for Lydian keys that have an F Major triad as a CMG tonic station. (To my knowledge, Book I never explicitly says we can have CMG tonic station triads in anything but the Lydian scale/7TO, but it seems to me to work very well when we extend it to other tonal orders as well.)

In my view, the only problem with calling it a C Ih is that there is no C major or minor triad for the scale to resolve to (it's augmented). This is not to say that you CAN’T call it this, but it seems like a very outgoing classification.
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Postby Fer Carranza » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:16 pm

It´s very interesting....., after your posts I tried horizontally to resolve to F major like you say and it´s very useful in this way, but the differents Keys to consider to work opens more and more the scope to diversity in composition. So, the question is what is the more ingoing environment of this collection??? I think that the one with less alterations or with the lowest tonal order. In this case Db nine tonal order will be the most ingoing way to classify this collection. It takes me to another question: one can do this kind of analysis even in the seven principal scales of LCC???
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Postby chespernevins » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:27 pm

It takes me to another question: one can do this kind of analysis even in the seven principal scales of LCC???


Hi FC, here’s my short answer – because I wanted to get back to you before too long.

7-10 Tone Order scales can definitely resolve to Tonic Station Triads built on Conceptual Modal Tonic degrees V, III, II and VII.

V = major triad
III = minor triad
II = major triad
VII = minor triad

This is all in Book I – are you familiar with this?

11 and 12 tone orders can resolve to any of the above plus I (major) and VI (minor).
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Postby Fer Carranza » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:27 pm

I read the book three years ago, and since that, I worked with it in standards and in my own compositions, like a source to improvise, and to me it´s easy now to do it. I don´t remember to have read anything like you says in that way, but I must to read again the concepts in the book, but I don´t remember now. For what you says I understand this: in example, 7-tonal order scale (F Lydian): F-G-A-B-C-D-E. 8-tonal order scale (F Lydian Agumented): F-G-A-B-C#-D-E. 9-tonal order scale (F Lydian Dimished): F-G-Ab-B-C-D-E and 10-tonal order scale (FLydian b7): F-G-A-B-C-D-Eb, all of these scales resolves to CMT V: C Major, or III: A minor; or II: G Major or VII: E minor.
And furthermore the 11 and 12 tonal orders (F AD and F ADB) resolves to all of previous and resolves to I (F) and VI (Dm). This is well undestood for me???
The strange thing with this is that I believed that Lydian scale don´t resolve to nothing because your vertical nature. Can you explain me what I don´t understand??
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Postby chespernevins » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:08 am

Hi FC,

Here's my take on it, although I have only book I and some other random notes to go on.

I don´t remember to have read anything like you says in that way, but I must to read again the concepts in the book, but I don´t remember now.


Check out p. 116-126 to start.


For what you says I understand this: in example,

7-tonal order scale (F Lydian): F-G-A-B-C-D-E.
8-tonal order scale (F Lydian Agumented): F-G-A-B-C#-D-E.
9-tonal order scale (F Lydian Dimished): F-G-Ab-B-C-D-E and
10-tonal order scale (FLydian b7): F-G-A-B-C-D-Eb,

all of these scales resolves to CMT V: C Major, or III: A minor; or II: G Major or VII: E minor.
And furthermore the 11 and 12 tonal orders (F AD and F ADB) resolves to all of previous and resolves to I (F) and VI (Dm). This is well undestood for me???


Correct, except the F Lyd Aug doesn’t have a C Major Triad because you can’t build a C Maj triad on the V. A CMG shares the same set of pitches as its parent Lydian scale, e.g., C Major = the same set of notes as F Lydian.

The strange thing with this is that I believed that Lydian scale don´t resolve to nothing because your vertical nature. Can you explain me what I don´t understand??


Lydian is a unity with its I Maj and VI min chords first and foremost. It is also a unity with all the vertical chords it creates. But look at Modal Genre V – it’s not C Major – it’s F Lyd with V in the Bass. This is the vertical chord that is created by the F Lydian scale on Modal Tonic V.

A CMG, though is a “theoreticalâ€
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Postby Fer Carranza » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:31 pm

I read again the book, that´s right, I forgotten this subject. I understand it, the dual feature of these CMG drives to yours appreciations....thank you Chesper and you guys!!!!! One uses this Concept in one way, with one point of view, starting from chords to scales, using CMGs, PMGs and SMGs, but I failed when I come from predetermined and unusual scales from chords. It was very interesting because I must to read again the book and clarify what it says. Thanks!!!!!
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Postby chespernevins » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:15 am

FC,

That's great!

I was meaning to ask - have you used this scale in a composition of yours? If so, what character does the scale take on in your piece(s)? Is it more of a vertical or horizontal usage, and if horizontal, what does it resolve to?

In fact, if you want to follow the example of Motherlode, maybe you could post a few bars?

Thanks!
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Postby Fer Carranza » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:46 pm

I use differents scales for composition, I don´t remember if this scale in particular was used by me. Searching in my compositions I found one called "En el Camino", where I use (remember that I don´t knowed the Concept yet) this collection: C-D-Eb-E-F#-G-Bb, and the chords I wear for harmonize the melody were: Gsus/D- EbMaj7- Gsus/D- EbMaj7- Cm7-Cm7b5- D7#5- F#7#5- GmMaj7- EbmMaj7- C9- C7#9 and in the refrain GmMaj7- Em7b5- EbMaj7-, well and so on. In future posts I share some others scales and harmonizations more complex, but it´s difficult in some examples because I renamed certain chords in my way and I must to decodified it to translate into normal notation. Hope this will be useful.....
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