From the ground up.

The main body of the LCC and its practical application, including all 4 published versions of Book 1 with their inserts: the 1959 tan cover; the 1959 light green cover Japanese edition; the 1970‘s white cover, which adds an illustrated River Trip to the 1959 edition, and the currently available Fourth Edition, 2001.

The authorization code is the first word on Page 198 of the Fourth Edition of the LCCTO.

Moderators: bobappleton, sandywilliams

Forum rules
An open letter from Alice Russell. June 21, 2011, Brookline, Massachusetts. 1. DO NOT make insulting, mean spirited remarks about anyone or their work; there are a plethora of sites where you can rant unfettered. If you attack someone personally, your comments will be removed. You can post it, but I'm not paying for it. Go elsewhere, and let those artists who are actually interested in discussion and learning have the floor. 2. There will be NO posting of or links to copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner. That's the law. And if you respect the work of people who make meaningful contributions, you should have no problem following this policy. 3. I appreciate many of the postings from so many of you. Please don't feel you have to spend your time "defending" the LCC to those who come here with the express purpose of disproving it. George worked for decades to disprove it himself; if you know his music, there's no question that it has gravity. And a final word: George was famous for his refusal to lower his standards in all areas of his life, no matter the cost. He twice refused concerts of his music at Lincoln Center Jazz because of their early position on what was authentically jazz. So save any speculation about the level of him as an artist and a man. The quotes on our websites were not written by George; they were written by critics/writers/scholars/fans over many years. Sincerely, Alice

From the ground up.

Postby Bob » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:44 am

So let's see if I can paraphrase this and get this straight. ( Excuse my naive reading of LCCTO)

Start with tempered tuning, which allows for transposable perfect fifths.
The major triad is the primary chord of the western system of harmony.

In jazz practice chords are extended in thirds up to a 13th.
For a fully extended C major triad, the most stable sound is the C major 13 (#11).
Put these notes in one octave, and you've got a C Lydian scale.
Hmm.
Stack those perfect 5ths, CGDAEBF#, put those notes in octave, and you've got a C Lydian scale.
Hmmm.
The Lydian scale produces the basic chords used in jazz. [As does the major scale, but...]

Let's see, the next most common source of jazz chords is the melodic minor. If I skip the next P5th (Db), I've got an A melodic minor, but I can't line these chords up with the major scale, I'd have to raise the root. If I reckon from the C Lydian I can line up these chords with their "siblings" and I've got an augmented Lydian scale.
I only have to remember to raise the G to a G#. Starting to look like a palette.

Up another fifth to Eb. Substituting the Eb for the E in the Lydian, I've got a Lydian diminished scale, and the siblings are still lined up.

The next fifth is Bb. B down to Bb in that Lydian, and there's the Lydian dominant scale.

The notes that are change (altered) are also a fifth apart.

The scale names should be consistent to make the matrix easier to memorize and consistent with the first column and the triad on I. How about Lydian, Lydian Augmented, Lydian Diminished, and Lydian Flat Seven.(that last one is nice because it recognizes the use of I7 as the I chord of the blues

Mutatis Mutandis: The whole tone scale, and a couple of diminished scales.

Looks like a rich palette of chord colors. I've got this 12x12 matrix (Chart A) with the family tree all lined up. The major, augmented, and diminished are in a column, minor chords are in their column, same with the ii-7 V7 ii-7(b5) V7(b9). I can go in, out and back without getting lost. I've got pools of coherent tones with which to channel the melodic muse. I don't have to memorize 50 scale-chord relationships or fire up my set theory pitch class set machine.
I just have to remember the number "5" (I can even 'channel' Ornette on All the Things You Are.} Pretty Cool.

Can anyone make the language simpler, I'm trying to lay this out for my 13 year old daughter.
Bob
 
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Postby dogbite » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:42 am

1) i'd say you're synopsis is right on target.

2) if your 13 year old daughter still talks to you, i'd say that your parenting skills are also right on target.

3) if anything needs simplification, i'd say it's the LANGUAGE:

for example, "auxiliary diminished blues" has way too many syllables. you know that i've used the color wheel as a metaphor for this: auxiliary diminished blues becomes simply "green"; further:

lydian is white
lyd aug is red
lyd dim is blue
lyd b7 is yellow
aux aug is orange
aux dim is violet

this is an "unauthorized" view. i beg forgiveness of russell and the authorized instructors. here is a 3x5:

VTG is "in the now" and is derived from the lydian tonic of a real or implied chord

HTG is "yet to be" and is derived from the prevailing tonic of real or implied chords

there are other aspects of the language i also find cumbersome (horizontalized vertical outgoing modal melody?)

db
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Postby Bob » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:02 am

I don't think color coding it makes it more accessible. Like semantic mapping into more commonly understood terms. Unless the point is to maintain the inner sanctum vibe.
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Postby dogbite » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:17 pm

perhaps i missed your point. i'm unsure if you are looking for a "3x5" synopsis of:

1) member scales

2) levels of tonal gravity

3) direct application

4) theoretical foundation, etc...

tell us more of what you're looking for.

db
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Postby Bob » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:53 pm

One can approach a (difficult) text by abstracting (albeit over-simplifying) some 'essential' heuristic' from which the details can be reconstructed by trial and error, deduction, practise, or by reading the original text with the 'heuristic' as a path through what might be originally perceived as 'cognitively chaotic.' For many, if not most, chaos engenders anxiety and thus defensive reactions. It may be hard to see the forest for the trees or the trees for the forest.

On LCC p51, Russell states, "Chart A encapsulates the information presented in the text thus far." I would argue at least through p102.

The next most important 'picture worth a thousand words, is the river trip graphic.

Regarding terminology, the first four of seven principle scales are anchored by I chords: Major, Augmented, Diminished, and Ib7. Scale 4 rotates the Lyd.Aug to emphasize the common jazz use of a I7, as in a blues. To be consistent, scale 1 could have been called 'Lydian Major,' but
the achieved clarity might well be offset by confounding the Lydian and major scales.

[Sidebar on AAJ:LCC, the open vs closed code issue was approached differently by PC:Apple operating systems, pros & cons on both sides vis outcome.]

If what I'm saying here sounds obvious, even mundane, it's because I'm trying to be obvious, even mundane.
Bob
 
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Postby Bob » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:10 pm

Question: Is the LCCTO intended to be esoteric or exoteric?
Bob
 
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I'm trying to be obvious, even mundane

Postby bobappleton » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:52 pm

great, great, great!

i'ts tguoh bineg ptmodoersn AND mkniag ssnes

when i was at saatchi and saatchi advertising (which we all love to hate) they used to say "sell like you're convincing your mother, your little sister, brother, etc"

talk simple. make sense.

yo momma.

:arrow:
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Postby Bob » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:21 am

I believe that by the rules of the Dozens, you don't go to "Yo Mama," until you've got nothing left and you resign.

But your point (or was it my point) is well taken. Arguably, the most practical parts of the LCC are Chart A, being in control of going in-out-and-back, and the river trip metaphor. Someone with your advertising expertise could present it elegantly and help make it sound accessible.

Let me leave you with the classic, "Your old lady's so ugly, when she cries the tears run down the back of her head." (Diddley, B. circa 1954)
Bob
 
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Postby Bob » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:22 am

I believe that by the rules of the Dozens, you don't go to "Yo Mama," until you've got nothing left and you resign.

But your point (or was it my point) is well taken. Arguably, the most practical parts of the LCC are Chart A, being in control of going in-out-and-back, and the river trip metaphor. Someone with your advertising expertise could present it elegantly and help make it sound accessible.

Let me leave you with the classic, "Your old lady's so ugly, when she cries the tears run down the back of her head." (Diddley, B. circa 1954)
Bob
 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:11 am

Postby Bob » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:23 am

I believe that by the rules of the Dozens, you don't go to "Yo Mama," until you've got nothing left and you resign.

But your point (or was it my point) is well taken. Arguably, the most practical parts of the LCC are Chart A, being in control of going in-out-and-back, and the river trip metaphor. Someone with your advertising expertise could present it elegantly and help make it sound accessible.

Let me leave you with the classic, "Your old lady's so ugly, when she cries the tears run down the back of her head." (Diddley, B. circa 1954)
Bob
 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:11 am

Postby bobappleton » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:45 am

Okay already. I hear you...

My honest (as opposed to what?) opinion is that this is true of all music. I love music.. it's abstraction.. the feelings.. the freedom.. the expression, communication.. all of that.

But it's ritten rong. It's one thing to learn a language where you have different parts of speech in nice categories and you learn the basics first... from yo momma.. moving on through the mid range to complexity and old age. But equal temperament and equal temperament notation, could drive anyone crazy or tempermental at least.

That would be the big one for me - would be to re-design music. I can only say this once, for fear someone will actualy ask me to do it.

b
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Postby Bob » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:39 am

So digital glitches come in threes.

Here's my AAJ thread:

Lydian Concept 'Cliff Notes,*

With tempered tuning (the piano) and the circle of fifths as a starting point:

1) "Chart A" is produced. This is a "chord/mode" matrix That organizes four primary scales (otherwise known as "major," melodic minor, harmonic major, and Lydian dominant), plus three symmetrical scales (AKA whole-tone, and the two diminished 8-tone scales) under one roof. The advantage? I don't need to memorize 50 (more like 250, with extensions) chord scale relationships). Everything is related in one family. One can go from "diatonic" to "chromatic" to "free" as the muse (and taste) dictate, without getting lost. Kinda of a tonal GPS.

2) The "River Trip" graphic metaphor elegantly illustrates moving from chord to chord thinking, to broader tonal centers, to the "tune" as a whole, to the tune as "home base."

3) in part 2, Ch. 2; subsets of scales are introduced (e.g., pentatonic scale), bringing "pitch class collections," melodic fragments, intervallic ''pods," all in the family. It's a color palette. Norman Rockwell? Jackson Pollack? Paint your own pictures.

1,2,3.

*(Caveat: this is my take, I'm not even remotely an "authorized" spokesperson for the LCC.) "The opinions expressed here are those of the author and not the station management of stations WLLC or WAAJ."

**Obstacles: There's a lot of theory-specific technical language. If reading Schenker, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Forte et. al. is not your cup of tea, Russell will not be a recreational read. In that case, check out the tables, figures, charts. A picture is worth a thousand words.

***Personally, I don't see the LCC in conflict with other approaches, including "When you get to the gig just play, tell your story." If the mean mention of "Lydian" triggers a road-rage response, try channelling all that emotion through your "horn."
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Postby bobappleton » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:41 pm

so,

o worthy and many-lettered ones,

do we vote?


i like this.

maybe i even get it...


what a day...

i took a sunday nap..

the forum was fixed..

and the lcc 'explained'

;)

ps: nearly, but not fixed quite yet
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