some thoughts on, and possible criticisms of the L.C.C.

The main body of the LCC and its practical application, including all 4 published versions of Book 1 with their inserts: the 1959 tan cover; the 1959 light green cover Japanese edition; the 1970‘s white cover, which adds an illustrated River Trip to the 1959 edition, and the currently available Fourth Edition, 2001.

The authorization code is the first word on Page 198 of the Fourth Edition of the LCCTO.

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An open letter from Alice Russell. June 21, 2011, Brookline, Massachusetts. 1. DO NOT make insulting, mean spirited remarks about anyone or their work; there are a plethora of sites where you can rant unfettered. If you attack someone personally, your comments will be removed. You can post it, but I'm not paying for it. Go elsewhere, and let those artists who are actually interested in discussion and learning have the floor. 2. There will be NO posting of or links to copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner. That's the law. And if you respect the work of people who make meaningful contributions, you should have no problem following this policy. 3. I appreciate many of the postings from so many of you. Please don't feel you have to spend your time "defending" the LCC to those who come here with the express purpose of disproving it. George worked for decades to disprove it himself; if you know his music, there's no question that it has gravity. And a final word: George was famous for his refusal to lower his standards in all areas of his life, no matter the cost. He twice refused concerts of his music at Lincoln Center Jazz because of their early position on what was authentically jazz. So save any speculation about the level of him as an artist and a man. The quotes on our websites were not written by George; they were written by critics/writers/scholars/fans over many years. Sincerely, Alice

Postby chespernevins » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:45 pm

Even with the confusion, this discussion has clarified my thinking somewhat.

So C lydian chromatic would be the station implied by a group of chords that resolved to C Major. I just don't think it was fully explained why 4th based scales have to take precedence in this situation. If the tonic station is truly Chromatic then surely the Lydian #4 based scales ar equally applicable. If not why not?

I am not the one to answer this definitively - I have my own questions - but I can only assume that when you get into the Lydian scales instead of the nat. 4th based scales that your melody - by definition - is no longer making use of horizontal forward motion. Therefore, the melody of the moment no longer has any relation to the tonic station you are moving toward down the line, and vice versa. In other words, the Lydian melody you are using will be heard with the chord of the moment, instead of as an anticipation to a tonic station down the road.

I see the point now that a C major scale can be primarily associated with C Lyd as much as it can be with F lyd. I still have the view that horizontal motion is created by forcing a flat lying lydian scale (say F) into a sharp lying tonic (say C). But once that sound is established, I can see how we can just go ahead and assume that C Major is a horizontal scale in CLC, without always referring to the FLC Universe. ON the other hand, I may still be out in left field! But I suppose this all comes under the category of "wait for book II"... (good post Schell)
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Postby Alan Smith » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:53 pm

Yes I look forward with interest to that book and this has indeed been an interesting discussion.

It just occured to me after my last post that there might be circumstances in which the Lydian #4 based scales are more applicable in a horozontal situation.

What if you had a progression that resoved thusly: D9b5, Db7susb5 to Cmaj7b5. Or one which took a different route to that chord, say F9sus, B7sus#9, Cmaj7b5?

In each case you'd be using a horizontal approach. If you were using your ear alone rather than the theory you'd might be forced to conclude that perhaps none of the available 4th based horizontal scales fit against those cadences. An interesting anomaly to which maybe the only satisfactory answer is the primacy of your own ear in any case!

Hopefully there will be something on this point in vol 2.

Alan Smith
Alan Smith
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Postby sandywilliams » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:02 pm

In regards to the two chord progressions, you could treat each chord vertically or you could write a melody using the C major scale (horizontally). I don’t think it is a prerequisite that all those chords share all the notes in the C major scale. As it turns out there just happen to be several notes from C major scale in all those chords.
I like the idea of your ear exercise, which if I understand it correctly, is go where your ear leads you over the chords. If the tempo were slow enough I think you would end up naturally playing vertically.
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Postby sandywilliams » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:24 pm

"It's really just a point of interest bearing in mind the concept's contention that the Cmaj7b5 Lydian chord scale is more in keeping with C major from a gravity point of view. Exactly why that ceases to be the case in a horizontal situation is not clear to me.â€
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Postby sandywilliams » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:30 pm

"I always thought that what you say here was true. But then when I read pp.118-121 of the new book, I saw that he uses the terms Mixolydian, Ionian, Aeolian and Phrygian in statements like "The Lydian scale's dual state Mixolydian mode". That's when I started using the term again when discussing CMGs."
Yes, I stand corrected. Thank you for making me read the book again. It amazing how much info about HTG is in Vol. I when you really explore it!
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Postby bobappleton » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:48 am

I'm so pleased to see this forum come back to life gain – with this thread. As some people know, my interest in the Concept (and I did get to it through "loving the music") is as a philosophy (not a system) which applies beyond sound.

Volume 2, even if it's not released immediately, may also be implied by your comments and intellectual curiosity.

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Postby Fer Carranza » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:55 am

I followed this amazing thread, and I feel that the key is to understand that the interpretation of a chord progression depends on our taste. One can choose to an horizontal scale (to sound in a moving to tonic taste, like a dinamic force), and in the other hand one can choose a vertical scale (to sound in a state of unity or passive force). All kind of chords can eventually can be decoded in this two ways. What is more closely related or it´s more loyal to the original tonic of one of this progressions? This book appoints out to the lydian tonic, with a lot of acoustic and cientific proofs. I think that if one of us begins to intelectualize the components of chords and mix the notes of scales with concepts derived from the traditional western way of learn music, one brings to confuse things. It´s only a matter of behaviour, if one improvise in a collection of notes over a G7 chord in a horizontal fashion then the look is horizontal and dinamic. If one improvise in the same collection of notes over the same G7 chord in a vertical fashion then the look is vertical and passive. I hope you understand my language.
Fer Carranza
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