LCC vs Ron Miller

The main body of the LCC and its practical application, including all 4 published versions of Book 1 with their inserts: the 1959 tan cover; the 1959 light green cover Japanese edition; the 1970‘s white cover, which adds an illustrated River Trip to the 1959 edition, and the currently available Fourth Edition, 2001.

The authorization code is the first word on Page 198 of the Fourth Edition of the LCCTO.

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LCC vs Ron Miller

Postby chespernevins » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:08 pm

Since things ARE a little slow, here's something I've been curious about:

I know a decent amount about the Concept, and nothing about the "Modal Jazz Composition and Harmony" books by Ron Miller.

Just FYI, I am a big fan of the Concept and think in terms of the Concept often.

But, many months ago I had a discussion where it was suggested that the Ron Miller material covered a lot of the same ideas but in a simpler and more straightforward way.

Does anyone here know both of these approaches? How would you compare them? What is missing from Ron Miller if it doesn't cover similar ground? Or does Ron Miller offer something the Concept doesn't?

I can't see how the Ron Miller stuff would have a similar idea to a lydian tonic type of element, for example, but that's just a guess until I get the books...
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Postby sandywilliams » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:52 pm

I’ve never heard of those Ron Miller books. This isn’t saying much. Despite owning several filling cabinets and bookcases full of jazz books there seems like an endless supply of new ones.Sometimes I wonder if I wasn’t better off the way I started : just learning from recordings!
Well you’ve piqued my curiosity about Ron Miller’s books…might have to check ‘em out. Let us know what you think after you’ve had a chance to digest them.
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LCC vs Ron Miller

Postby HowardJ » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:08 pm

I think you will enjoy Ron Miller's books.

To have your questions answered and speak to Ron go to: - Faculty - his e-mail and - his personal webpage


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Postby sandywilliams » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:12 am

I love his 'Practice Prayer', from his site( in the download section).
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Postby Alan Smith » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:43 am

I'd say that Miller's approach in Vol 1 of his book is one that focusses primarily on composition using voicings dervived the modes of the basic scales as they are traditionally thought of, although they are used here in a non-tradtional non-diatonic way.

Which is to say that Miller uses the term 'chromatic' to mean that you can use modal chords freely to create compositions without reference to an overall key centre or cadential root movement. Each modal chord essentially implying its own tonality.

Miller's book does distinguish between verical/modal and horizontal modal contexts but with the absence of the concept of an order of tonal gravity within the chromatic scale implied they imply, any similarity between it and the Lydian chromatic Concept is superficial.

Having said that it's a valuable compositional method which Miller is offering given the dearth of material on the subjectand one that might be used in tandem with knowledge derived from The L.C.C

Characteristic modal voicings are explored and methods of achieving harmonic continuity and cadence outside of the diatonic system are arrived at through common upper structures in counterpoint with an independent bass root movement and the use of dark to light modal progression.

His grading of the various modes derived from major, melodic, and harmonic minor sources is however more to do with percieved colour rather than tonal gravity and it is here that the difference to the Lydian Chromatic concept registers strongly. The question of how to interpret the modes in an improvisational sense is beyond the scope of the book as is any concept of polymodalism.

Alan Smith
Alan Smith
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Postby chespernevins » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:56 pm


Thanks for that great response. Exactly what I was interested in hearing.

Like so many of us, I'm sure, it will be months before I can focus on it, but it's on my list!

Thanks again.
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Postby Bob » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:10 pm

I'm late to the forum, but thought I'd weigh in, as one who finds both the LCC & Miller's books indispensible to composition and procedural practise. Alan Smith's post covers it. True the relationship is 'superficial,' in so far as the absence of theoretical influence, but the LCC & Miller are related if one cares to relate them. I find, for example, Miller's tone color priorities and 'emotion continuum' valuable, along with 'Chart A,' for making choices when changing the tonal landscape. I'll pm a basic concordance to help make my case.
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